Friday, March 14, 2008

A full Jehovah’s Witness Post

In my previous post, I made mention of my Uncle who has expressed concern about the church I am joining that is not a Kingdom Hall. It was merely a small part of my post, but has sparked some comments, and so I decided to make a full statement. In reading some online articles and the website linked in a comment from my last post, it is clear that many people out there have a profound hatred for Jehovah’s Witnesses. I want to remind any reader that feels this hatred that we are called to love God’s people, even if they are your enemy.

The following is a portion of a report that I wrote last summer following a conversation with my Uncle. He was very busy at the time with personal matters and lost the email that I sent him. I intend to send the report again, but thought I may get some constructive thoughts through comments before sending it to a family member. The report addresses the issues of Spirit existence, Jesus’ deity, Justification by grace alone, heaven, and hell. I started with a list I found online about 100 questions to ask a Jehovah’s Witness. I weeded out the unimportant ones, and researched scripture concerning the questions I found to have some validity. The translation I used was the NWT so we would be on the same playing field and not have an argument about translation. I appreciate and comments and criticism.

Spirit existence:
Verse: Acts 7:59 And they went on casting stones at Stephen as he made appeal and said: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then, bending his knees, he cried out with a strong voice: “Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them.” And after saying this he fell asleep [in death].

Question: If the spirit of a man has no existence apart from the body, why does Stephen just before his death look up and see Jesus in heaven and pray to "receive my spirit"?

Verse: 2 Corinthians 5:6 We are therefore always of good courage and know that, while we have our home in the body, we are absent from the Lord, 7 for we are walking by faith, not by sight. 8 But we are of good courage and are well pleased rather to become absent from the body and to make our home with the Lord.

Verse: Phil 1:23 I am under pressure from these two things; but what I do desire is the releasing and the being with Christ, for this, to be sure, is far better.

Question: If the spirit of a man has no existence apart from the body, why does Paul say that when we are absent from the body we make our home with the Lord and that it is better to be released from the body and be with Christ?

Verse: Luke 20:37 But that the dead are raised up even Moses disclosed, in the account about the thorn bush, when he calls Jehovah ‘the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob.’ 38 He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him.”

Verse: John 8:56 Abraham YOUR father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.”

Question: When we talked, I believe you said that no one had gone into heaven before Jesus and that those are all dead in the ground awaiting resurrection. Why then does it say that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are all living to him? Why does it also say that Abraham saw and rejoiced in seeing Jesus’ day?

Question: Similar to the last question. How is it that Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount of transfiguration in Matthew 17? Shouldn’t they just be dead and in the ground?

Verse: Genesis 35:18 And the result was that as her soul was going out (because she died) she called his name Ben-o´ni; but his father called him Benjamin.

Verse: 1 Kings 17:21 And he proceeded to stretch himself upon the child three times and call to Jehovah and say: “O Jehovah my God, please, cause the soul of this child to come back within him.”

Question: If the soul dies with the body, how does it go out when Rebecca died and why does Elijah ask for the boy’s soul to come back in?

Jesus is God:
Verse: Isaiah 42:8 “I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.

Verse: Isaiah 48:11 For my own sake, for my own sake I shall act, for how could one let oneself be profaned? And to no one else shall I give my own glory.

Verse: John 17: 5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

Question: if no one else can have God’s glory as he said in the OT, how is it that Jesus can ask to be glorified alongside of God if God will give no one else his glory? Why does Jesus talk about the past glory they shared?

Verse: Revelation 1: 17 And when I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet.
And he laid his right hand upon me and said: “Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, 18 and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Ha´des.

Verse: Revelation 22: 13 I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

Note: If you read the whole passage, the “I” in the above verses is Jesus speaking.

Verse: Revelation 1: 8 “I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

Question: How is it that both God and Jesus claim to be Alpha and Omega? They must be the same, or else are their two Alphas and Omegas?

Verse: Isaiah 9:6 For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Question: Why is the son born to us given the name Mighty God if he is not God? He is also given the name Eternal Father, how can the son’s name be Eternal Father?

Verse: Isaiah 44:24 “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?

Verse: John 1: 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

Question: Why is it that God claims in Isaiah that he created the heavens and earth by himself and that no one was with him if Jesus says in John that all things were created through him? Wouldn’t that mean that they were both around during creation and therefore God was not alone?

Question: If nothing came into existence apart from Jesus, how is it that Jesus was the first created thing? Was he able to create himself?

Verse: John 20: 28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”

Question: Why does Thomas call Jesus his God? If Jesus isn’t his God, why didn’t he correct him?

Verse: Matthew 1: 23 “Look! The virgin will become pregnant and will give birth to a son, and they will call his name Im·man´u·el,” which means, when translated, “With Us Is God.”

Question: Why does Jesus’ name mean “God is with us” if he isn’t God?

Verse: John 5: 18 On this account, indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God.

Question: Wouldn’t Jesus be sinning if he made himself equal to God and was not God?

Verse: John 5: 22 For the Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son, 23 in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 24 Most truly I say to YOU, He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life.

Question: Why does God want everyone to honor the Son in the same way they honor the Father? If Jesus in below God, then shouldn’t we honor the Father more than the Son?

Justification by grace alone:

Verse: Ephesians 2: 8 By this undeserved kindness, indeed, YOU have been saved through faith; and this not owing to YOU, it is God’s gift. 9 No, it is not owing to works, in order that no man should have ground for boasting. 10 For we are a product of his work and were created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared in advance for us to walk in them.

Verse: Titus 3: 4 However, when the kindness and the love for man on the part of our Savior, God, was manifested, 5 owing to no works in righteousness that we had performed, but according to his mercy he saved us through the bath that brought us to life and through the making of us new by holy spirit. 6 This [spirit] he poured out richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that, after being declared righteous by virtue of the undeserved kindness of that one, we might become heirs according to a hope of everlasting life.

Question: You told me that you believe that we are not saved by faith alone, and that it is also based on works. Why does it say in Ephesians that we are saved by faith and not by works so that no man can boast? Why does it say in Titus that we become heirs by his mercy and not by out works?

Heaven:

Verse: Isaiah 51: 6 “Raise YOUR eyes to the heavens themselves, and look at the earth beneath. For the very heavens must be dispersed in fragments just like smoke, and like a garment the earth itself will wear out, and its inhabitants themselves will die like a mere gnat.

Verse: Revelation 21: 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.

Question: I think that a witness believe that after tribulation and everything that the witnesses will live on this earth because that is what God designed for us. Why does Isaiah and Revelation say that this Earth will wear out pass away?

Also see Psalms 102:25-26, Hebrews 1:10-11, Matthew 25:35, Mark 13:31, and Luke 21:33 for other verses that state the earth will perish or pass away.

Verse: 1 Thessalonians 4: . 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord.

Question: What does it mean that those who are still alive at the 2nd coming will meet the Lord in the air? If we are suppose to stay on earth, why are we meeting in the air?

Verse: Ephesians 4: 4 One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

Verse: 1 Corinthians 12: 12 For just as the body is one but has many members, and all the members of that body, although being many, are one body, so also is the Christ. 13 For truly by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit.

Question: If only 144,000 are destined to go to heaven while everyone else stays on earth, why are we all baptized into one body and it doesn’t matter where your origin is? Why then is the one body called into one hope if Witness’s say there are two groups of people that have different hopes?

Verse: Revelation 7: 9 After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.

Verse: Revelation 14: 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.

Question: The four creatures, the elders, and the 144,000 are all standing before the throne in Revelation 14. The great crowd is also standing before the throne in Rev 7. How is it that all these things are standing before the throne if the great crowd will never go into heaven?

Verse: Revelation 19:1 After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven. They said: “Praise Jah, YOU people!

Question: Who is this great crowd that is in heaven?

Hell Fire:

Verse: Revelation 20: 10 And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet [already were]; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Question: If there is no hell fire, why does it say that they will be tormented day and night forever in the lake of fire?

Verse: Revelation 14: 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of his wrath, and he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

Question: Same as last.

Verse: Matthew 18:8, 25:41, and Jude 7 all talk about the everlasting fire.

Question: Why must there be an everlasting fire if eventually all badness will be completely destroyed and fail to exist? Couldn’t the fire just last until the last of the evil are destroyed?

Verse: Matthew 13: 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be.

Question: How can there be weeping and gnashing of teeth in the furnace where people are simply destroyed?

Verse: Mark 14: 21 True, the Son of man is going away, just as it is written concerning him, but woe to that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been finer for that man if he had not been born.”

Question: Why would it be better if Judas had never been born? If he is just going to be destroyed, isn’t that the same as not being born? It seems like he faces a worse fate.


Thank you for reading through this and any comments.

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

How much "love" did YHWH and the Israelites show the Canaanites, and thereafter any "neighbors" who did anything to bother them?

How much "love" is JC going to show the BILLIONS of people remaining on the earth when he returns the second time as the General of heaven's armies.

Anyone as naive as yourself, and other "Love - Love - Love" christians, as to the reality of this world and how GOD has dealt with and will continue to deal with His adversaries makes me question whether you have the in-dwelling of the HS.

GOD "loves" such people only to the extent that He has provided them with an extremely expensive avenue of salvation, and He welcomes one and all to take advantage of such.

Until people choose to so so, they are GOD's enemy, and He will deal with them accordingly. And, GOD certainly never commanded His followers, whether 3500 years ago or today, to consider nor treat His enemies any better than He does so Himself.

If the GOD you "think" you worship "Luuuubbbbbbsss" everybody so, so, so much, THEN YOU ARE WORSHIPPPING A FALSE GOD OF YOUR OWN CREATION.

Zackery David said...

In response to the comment left by “Anonymous:” To an extent, I agree with your statement about Christians that boil any message about God down to ultra love messages. They are missing so much about the character of God that should also be adored including his power, authority, holiness, justice, etc. Those that know the Lord fear the Lord, and that is not a “love – love – love” message.

With that being said, I disagree with your statement as a whole and I hope to explain as concisely as possibly why that is.

God hates sin, so much so that the wages of it is death. Everyone who has been killed or has gone to hell deserved it because of the sin in their life. If a person pays for their sin (not a Christian) they are facing the judgment and wrath of God. In the Old Testament, God placed is judgment and wrath on the unrighteous nations when he commanded the Israelites to wipe them out. At end times, those JC chooses not to have mercy on will also suffer His wrath and judgment. This judgment is perfect and an important part of God’s holiness, but this judgment is not to be left up for us. We are called to love our neighbors (10 commandments) and or enemies (luke 6) and leave wrath to God.

I think this verse from Romans 12 speaks to this subject:
17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[d]says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."[e] 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
This is the truth of the World and how we ought to teat the others we encounter. In closing I would like to point out one other verse. Anyone who sins is considered an adversary to God. Here is one way he chose to deal with a large group of his adversaries:
Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

TJ said...

Hey Zack; many thanks for posting your questions and giving me the opportunity to respond. I'll begin typing up some answers and I'll get them to you ASAP.

TJ

Keith said...

Whoa. Woke up because I couldn't sleep and just read this whole post. Awesome stuff.

Another verse to point out to the "anonymous" comment-leaver (again in the NWT): Matthew 5:44-45 However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous.

The beauty of grace is that God has shown UNDESERVED FAVOR to the wicked, and He asks us to LOVE THEM likewise. The time of judgment will come, but it is not now and not for us to carry out.

P.S. Zackery, love the new layout. You need to update that cubicle picture so I can see the basketball
hoop in action though!

P.P.S. Does it bother YOU that the NWT translation capitalizes YOU and YOUR all the time? It kinda drives me crazy ... I feel like it's putting us on the same level as God ... and, when you think about it, I guess in some ways they do. Personally, I don't even really like the Western concept of capitalizing "I" all the time, but I do it because when i type like this i look juvenile and informal and, well, that's just not my M.O.

Peace brother.

TJ said...

Keith, just as a quick note to your P.P.S., there is a real reason for the capitalization of some second-person pronouns. The introduction to the NWT explains, "Where 'YOU' is printed in small capital letters, it shows that the pronoun is plural."

It just so happens that the English language uses the same word, "you", for both second-person singular and second-person plural pronouns. The Bible's original languages, however, use different words for the singular and plural. So the capitalization serves to bring out in English the same distinctions that were made by Bible writers.

So the difference between you/YOU is the same as the difference between I/we and he/they. That's not to say that the specific method for bringing out this distinction cannot be criticized. A couple of other translations have tried putting a plus sign (+) after the plural "you" or using a southern-sounding "you all". Whatever the method that is employed, I have found that when I read the Bible without any difference between the second-person plural and singular, I actually do misinterpret who is being addressed.

And since the NWT is available in many other languages besides English, probably most of which do have a difference between the singular and plural, such capitalization is not employed in those languages.

TJ

Keith said...

TJ,

Thanks for the clarification. I do understand that in those places in the Bible, traditional English translations can be hazy due to the BOTH singular and plural "you" in English. However, I tend to believe that those kinds of things are unavoidable in translations due to the vast differences in languages, and rather than add something to the text which distracts, such as the capitalization of a common word, I would probably prefer a simple footnote on the word "you" when it is plural.

Just a matter of personal preference, I suppose. One can definitely make a case for the fact that the capitalization actually provides for a fuller understanding of the text, rather than distracting. Still, to me it seems contrary to the purpose of a translation, which is to convey the text as wholly as possible using the practices, nuances, and grammatical structure of another language . In the English language, we are constantly taking into account that when someone says "you," they could be talking to a single person or a plural group of people, and I do not think it is a stretch to count on the reader to do the same when reading the text. Now that I understand the purpose behind the capitalization, though, I can understand its utility and I have no problem with it.

Thanks again for explaining, I'm always curious about such things and I really had no idea, I was simply struck by the capitalization as it stands out as a difference in the NWT.

TJ said...

Hey Keith,

Your distaste for it is a perfectly valid opinion. At times when reading the NWT out loud, I accidentally emphasize the "YOU" because of its capitalization. At other times, it corrects what would have been my understanding of a singular "you" in a passage. So there is a definite trade off there.

As to the purpose of a translation, you are probably aware that there are a variety of different translations that are meant for different purposes. For example, an interlinear translation is only meant to give straight translations for each of the original words, completely ignoring the rules of English grammar. Thus it is extremely difficult to read an interlinear translation, but it also gives a modern reader a more exact understanding of what appears in the ancient text.

Throughout the spectrum of translations we have very literal translations to very paraphrased ones. The literal are meant to stay very close to the ancient text - keeping the ancient figures of speech, retaining much of the source language's structure and patterns, rendering different English words for different source words, etc. - allowing for the reader to dig and do much of the interpreting themselves. But this also means that the translation 'sounds' awkward or strange at times to a modern reader, because it has an ancient Hebrew and Greek flavor to it. Paraphrased translations, on the other hand, read much smoother, using modern figures of speech and possibly a more natural vocabulary, but they also do much of the interpreting for the reader which may or may not reflect what was actually meant.

The NWT is a very literal translation, and it is meant not so much for public reading (which needs to 'sound' good) as for personal study (which requires digging). Thus it is more concerned with helping the reader to understand what the original text says than trying to get the text to conform to normal English standards. Knowing this helps me to forgive the "YOU" capitalization, because I know that exact accuracy on this point was deemed more important than the look of the text. Like I said, it's perfectly fine to prefer that information in a footnote (although many NWT Bibles do not contain footnotes because of the various sizes available), but the vast majority of English translations available do not give the reader this information at all, though is plainly evident in the Hebrew and Greek as well as many other modern language versions.

A similar potentially-distracting aid in the NWT is its use of brackets around some words. These words are understood by the translators to be implied in the source text, but need to be made explicit to a modern reader, usually so that the sentence can be completed. All translations need to do this, but many or most give no indication as to what words have been added so that the reader can take it into consideration. I could go on about similar features, but the point is, I usually use another translation when reading through the Bible quickly to capture the sense of a whole book and such, but I use the NWT for careful study. That's when these features become extremely valuable to me.

TJ

TJ said...

Hi Zack,

Again, thanks for allowing me the opportunity to comment on these questions. Obviously there are quite a few of them, so for now I restricted myself to answering the first 'set' dealing with "Spirit existence" and we'll see where it goes from here I guess. I apologize for the length of my response.

Now before I get into your questions on the spirit/soul, it may be worth going over some Biblical evidence concerning these. First, the Bible makes it clear that the soul is not some part of man, but that man is a soul:

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7; KJV)

“And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul.” (1 Corinthians 15:45; KJV)

The Hebrew word for “soul” literally means ‘a breather’. So even animals are described as souls in the Bible:

“God went on to say: ‘Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls . . . ’ And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. . . . And God went on to say: ‘Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds . . . ’ And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind.” (Genesis 1:20,21,24,25)

The NET Bible backs all this up in a footnote:

“The Hebrew term נֶפֶשׁ (nefesh, 'being') is often translated 'soul,' but the word usually refers to the whole person. The phrase נֶפֶשׁ חַיַּה (nefesh khayyah, 'living being') is used of both animals and human beings (see [Genesis] 1:20, 24, 30; 2:19).”

So it is not surprising that the Bible also speaks of the soul dying:

“Behold, all souls are mine; . . . the soul that sins shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4; RSV)

“And it shall be that every soul that does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.” (Acts 3:23; RSV)

OK, now we’ve covered what the soul is; in the Biblical sense it is the entire person. But is the spirit of a person the same thing as the soul? It can’t be. A clear distinction is made between the soul and spirit here:

“For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit.” (Hebrews 4:12; ESV)

The Biblical “spirit” of a person is not some immaterial consciousness that survives death, rather it is the life-force, or breath of life, that keeps the soul living. Just like when the electricity goes out and your appliances stop working, so it happens that when the spirit goes out the soul dies. That spirit does not take any of the characteristics of the person with it when it disappears, just as electricity doesn’t take any of the appliances’ characteristics with it. Keep this in mind when reading the following scriptures:

“All have the same spirit; man has no advantage over the animal.” (Ecclesiastes 3:19; NIV with alternate rendering added)

“His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (Psalm 146:4)

So the soul is the entire person and the spirit is the life-force, or breath, in that person. With these definitions in mind, let’s move on to your questions.

Verse: Acts 7:59 And they went on casting stones at Stephen as he made appeal and said: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then, bending his knees, he cried out with a strong voice: “Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them.” And after saying this he fell asleep [in death].

Question: If the spirit of a man has no existence apart from the body, why does Stephen just before his death look up and see Jesus in heaven and pray to "receive my spirit"?


This situation is analogous to what Jesus had said earlier. Just before he died, he said, “Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.” (Luke 23:46) Since he was about to breathe his last breath, Jesus trusted God to resurrect him from the dead by giving him back his life-force, his spirit. God did this three days later. (Acts 2:32) Since Jesus was resurrected, he has been given all authority and even the keys of death by Jehovah God.

Therefore, we all look to Jesus to resurrect us from the dead, by entrusting him with our spirit, our life-force, when we die so that our faith rests on him to give it back to us in the resurrection. This is what Stephen is doing when he sees Jesus in a vision and asks him to ‘receive’ his spirit. He is putting his hope of future life in Jesus' hands, so that Jesus will ‘give back’ his spirit to him at the resurrection.

Verse: 2 Corinthians 5:6 We are therefore always of good courage and know that, while we have our home in the body, we are absent from the Lord, 7 for we are walking by faith, not by sight. 8 But we are of good courage and are well pleased rather to become absent from the body and to make our home with the Lord.

Verse: Phil 1:23 I am under pressure from these two things; but what I do desire is the releasing and the being with Christ, for this, to be sure, is far better.

Question: If the spirit of a man has no existence apart from the body, why does Paul say that when we are absent from the body we make our home with the Lord and that it is better to be released from the body and be with Christ?


Those who have been anointed with holy spirit to live in the heavens with Jesus to rule as kings and priests must first die in their physical bodies and then be resurrected with spiritual bodies. Why? Our physical bodies, made of flesh and blood, cannot enter into the heavenly realm. Paul explained all of this to the Corinthians:

“Nevertheless, someone will say: 'How are the dead to be raised up? Yes, with what sort of body are they coming?' You unreasonable person! What you sow is not made alive unless first it dies; and as for what you sow, you sow, not the body that will develop, but a bare grain, it may be, of wheat or any one of the rest; but God gives it a body just as it has pleased him, and to each of the seeds its own body . . . So also is the resurrection of the dead . . . It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. It is even so written: 'The first man Adam became a living soul.' The last Adam [Jesus] became a life-giving spirit. Nevertheless, the first is, not that which is spiritual, but that which is physical, afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is out of the earth and made of dust; the second man is out of heaven. As the one made of dust is, so those made of dust are also; and as the heavenly one is, so those who are heavenly are also. And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one. However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom.” (1 Corinthians 15:35-50)

So the person dies, his spirit goes out, and then he is given a better kind of body and his life-force, spirit, is restored. He is now “absent from the [physical] body”, and is ready to live in the heavens with Jesus Christ. His spirit, or life-force, is still in a body, but now it is in a spiritual body.

Verse: Luke 20:37 But that the dead are raised up even Moses disclosed, in the account about the thorn bush, when he calls Jehovah ‘the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob.’ 38 He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him.”

Verse: John 8:56 Abraham YOUR father rejoiced greatly in the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.”

Question: When we talked, I believe you said that no one had gone into heaven before Jesus and that those are all dead in the ground awaiting resurrection. Why then does it say that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are all living to him? Why does it also say that Abraham saw and rejoiced in seeing Jesus’ day?


At the time Jesus walked the earth, he said truthfully, “no man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.” (John 3:13) And again, after his resurrection, Jesus was accurately described as “the firstborn from the dead.” (Colossians 1:18) He was the very first person resurrected to everlasting life from the dead. In fact, no human could possibly be resurrected to everlasting life before Jesus made the sacrifice that takes away our sins.

When the faithful man Lazarus died, his believing sister looked forward to his resurrection to everlasting life, not as something that would happen immediately, but rather she said, “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” (John 11:24) So this would be at some point in the future.

Notice in your passage above that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are described as “living to [Jehovah].” That means that they are not literally living right now, but their resurrection is so sure that they can be described as living from God’s perspective. When will they actually be resurrected? The Bible answers:

“. . . in the Christ all will be made alive. But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.” (1 Corinthians 15:22-26)

Before Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob’s resurrections can take place, Jesus and “those who belong” to him must first be resurrected. These are the anointed Christians who are resurrected with spiritual bodies that we discussed above. Then “death is to be brought to nothing” for the rest of mankind who are living on the earth. It is only at this time that those faithful men will have their long-awaited resurrections realized.

In what way did Abraham see Jesus’ day? Well, we know that Abraham made many sacrifices in life because “he was awaiting the city having real foundations, the builder and maker of which city is God.” (Hebrews 11:10) This city is New Jerusalem, from which Jesus rules. So Abraham could figuratively ‘see’ the fulfillment of God’s promises back when he was still living. This is why he was willing to make the sacrifices that he did; he rejoiced in the hope of seeing these things fulfilled, just as we can also look to the promises that Jesus will yet accomplish in the future and rejoice.

Question: Similar to the last question. How is it that Moses and Elijah appeared on the mount of transfiguration in Matthew 17? Shouldn’t they just be dead and in the ground?

This was a vision of these men, it was not the actual resurrected Moses and Elijah with Jesus. This is evidently why Peter was confused. “Peter said to Jesus: ‘Instructor, it is fine for us to be here, so let us erect three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah,’ he not realizing what he was saying.” (Luke 9:33) He wasn’t realizing that Moses and Elijah weren’t actually there, so there was no need to set up tents for them.
Apparently Peter was much more careful about things that appeared real to him after that, because when an angel was sent to break him out of jail, “he did not know that what was happening through the angel was real. In fact, he supposed he was seeing a vision.” (Acts 12:9)

Verse: Genesis 35:18 And the result was that as her soul was going out (because she died) she called his name Ben-o´ni; but his father called him Benjamin.

Verse: 1 Kings 17:21 And he proceeded to stretch himself upon the child three times and call to Jehovah and say: “O Jehovah my God, please, cause the soul of this child to come back within him.”

Question: If the soul dies with the body, how does it go out when Rebecca died and why does Elijah ask for the boy’s soul to come back in?


As with many words, “soul” can be flexible in an idiomatic way. The Hebrew word for “soul” can refer more specifically to ‘life as a creature’ in certain contexts. So the ‘soul going out’ means losing life or the ‘soul coming back’ means regaining life.
Similarly, the Bible states that “the soul of the flesh is in the blood.” (Leviticus 17:11) Does that mean that some immaterial and immortal soul is somehow actually in our blood? No. It is instead highlighting our blood as being extremely vital for our lives, our souls. These are some of the Hebraic figures of speech we have to deal with on their own terms. But the Bible is extremely clear (no figure of speech) that man is a soul.

So I've tried to give decent answers to your questions and I'd be happy to explain any aspect of these things further.

Thanks again,
TJ

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